This is the weekly discussion of students enrolled in English 4326--Studies in British Literature I at Texas Wesleyan University, Fall 2008.
Friday, September 5, 2008
Prologue to Tale: The Wife of Bath
This is actually two questions. How do you understand the purpose(s) of the prologues we have read so far? With that in mind, answer this: What relationship do you see between the Wife of Bath's Prologue and her Tale?
i see the prologues as previews of the story or the life of the character who is about to tell the tale. they serve as insight to give us something to look forward too.
the relationship between the Wife of Bath's Prologue and her tale is a direct relationship her prologue dealt with her personal life and experiences that she has going through. the wife of bath tells us in the prolouge that "she would withhold sex from the old ones to get the riches they might offer her" sex is a key theme for me she used her sexuallity to get her husbands to act a as she wanted them too. the tale deals with a women getting a chance to punish a man who has taking sexual advantage of women. the queen was able to spare his life for a year but she still held it in her hands and the answer "women disire to have the sovereignty and sit in rule and government above their husbands and to have their way in love" this is the women's way expressing her freedom as an individual. for all her hurt and pain in the prologue she was able to get revenge in her tale.
I think the best explanation for the prologues (to me) is that Chaucer intended to introduce a sort of theme and ethical dilemma and/or situation. Going back to what we discussed in class, I think Chaucer knew that his prologues would introduce a topic and that the tales would dig a little deeper, but the questions--relating the story to real life--would still be left unanswered. That's why these pieces have lasted so long throughout historical-popular literature.
I think that the main relationship between the Wife of Bath's prologue and tale is that the prologue introduces the theme of power struggles, and the tale is told for her to reassure herself that she indeed led a pure and Christian life. For a woman that married so much and struggled with power issues herself, she wanted to justify her actions with the tale. The Wife of Bath uses the story with Jankin to support and give credit to her natural and 'necessary' sexual tendencies.
The prologues appear to be Chaucer's way of giving us background information of the characters that he may have left out in the initial descriptions. The prologues also seem to lead into the stories as well as give us an idea of what kind of story we will be reading next. The stories all seem to be connected to the characters themselves, for instance the Wife of Bath and her tale.
The Wife of Bath seems to be the type of woman who likes to get her way...especially when it comes to men and sex. In her tale, the answer to the knight's question is that women desire most is to be in charge of their husbands and lovers. Perhaps this is what the Wife of Bath secretly desires? Maybe it's just me, but it also appears that the Wife sees men as cruel and shallow...which would explain her treatment of them. But I could possibly be looking to far into it. The fact that she had so many husbands that she practically drove insane baffles me.
It seems like the prologues are just giving us a taste of what the characters are like and a brief preview of what the story will be like. If the character is noble then the story is most likely not to be raunchy or shocking. If story is by someone who seems like they arent pure or noble then most likely the story will be the same way.
The Wife of Bath's prologue tells about her life and her struggles with men. The tale then has the man trying to figure out what women truly desire. I think that both show different ways of women getting what they want from men but they both involve some type of deception.
I believe that the purpose of the prologues is to give us deeper insight as to the type of person each character is as well as to what the following tale will be about. There is a strong relationship between the Wife of Bath's Prologue and her Tale. Chaucer spends the entire prologue (23 pages) depicting the Wife of Bath as defending her position as a woman who has been married five times. She gives logical, reasonable evidence as to why she should not be looked down upon for her many marriages (King Solomon, Jacob, and Abraham had multiple wives). She also gives logical reasonings as to why her sexual drive in general should not be looked down upon (why did God give us this ability if He did not mean for us to put it to use?). However, while she has good logic behind those arguments, she also proves to be an extremely petty, manipulative, money-hungry woman. She gives example after example of how she was not happy in her marriages until she was able to exhort power over her husbands. She insinuates that women do in fact want to have power in their relationships. This theme, which the Wife of Bath holds so strongly for her personal life, blatantly ties in to her tale. The knight gets tricked by the old hag, but ends up getting everything that he wants when he finally relents and gives the woman the power to make the decision.
I think Chaucer's prologues have several purposes. First, they serve to unify the work by reminding us that these are not just random tales thrown together, but a chronological discussion and storytelling session among travelers. They also allow us to gain some insight into the characters and the reasons they choose the tales they do (for instance, the Reeve's Tale being told to spite the miller). As we discussed in class, the Wife of Bath uses her prologue to defend her credibility and put forth justification for her several marriages. I think her Tale, in which the knight learns that what women most want is to be in control of their man, is used to further justify her actions. She first is taking the blame off of herself by claiming that ALL women want to govern in love - she's just one of the few willing to admit it. And by allowing the knight to be rewarded with a beautiful, faithful, young wife in the end, she is saying that the way for a man to get what he wants is to submit to the woman. A fine argument, though I suspect some may have the crazy idea that this should go both ways....
Nice job pointing out the Wife of Bath's hypocrisy! She candidly tells us that she married for greed, treated her husbands abusively, and manipulated them to get her way. It is really interesting that she spends so much time attempting to make her multiple marriages line up with Biblical doctrine, when her behavior within those marriages is so blatantly un-Christian. She mentions Paul's letters quite a few times, but she certainly doesn't attempt to personify his description of love in 1st Corinthians, now does she?
i have to agree on your comments about the wife of bath. while she is giving great reasons why she shouldnt be looked down upon for having the high sex drive and for the multiple marriages, she uses horrible tactics to snare these men. It shows that she will do anything, including getting hit in the head with a book and going deaf, to have control over these men.
I like how you point out that the reader can guess what type of tale they are about to read based on the character of the storyteller. A good example of that was the knight, who is considered noble, and his tale, which was unsurprisingly about nobility and idealistic views of love...Nobody should've been surprised about the Wife of Bath's tale either. I like that you pointed out deception as a role-player in the Wife's treatment of men as well as the main character in her tale.
Lashawnda, it's interesting that you bring up the fact that the Wife of Bath's prologue gives us a taste of what is coming up. In my opinion, she is one of the more characterized pilgrims. Unlike some of the other professions, we actually get a pretty darn good idea of who she is and what she is all about. As far as the deception goes, I think Chaucer throws in these curve balls very intuitively. He is able to ignite conversation about virtually every situation; thus is why we still find ourselves reading these after so many years.
martin i agree she was using her tale and prologue to talk about a power struggle between men and women. she talked about her personal live in the prologue describing her power struggle with her five husband and how finally in the end she got a chance to lead and her tale is about a woman who has the power of life and death over her man.
11 comments:
i see the prologues as previews of the story or the life of the character who is about to tell the tale. they serve as insight to give us something to look forward too.
the relationship between the Wife of Bath's Prologue and her tale is a direct relationship her prologue dealt with her personal life and experiences that she has going through. the wife of bath tells us in the prolouge that "she would withhold sex from the old ones to get the riches they might offer her" sex is a key theme for me she used her sexuallity to get her husbands to act a as she wanted them too. the tale deals with a women getting a chance to punish a man who has taking sexual advantage of women. the queen was able to spare his life for a year but she still held it in her hands and the answer "women disire to have the sovereignty and sit in rule and government above their husbands and to have their way in love" this is the women's way expressing her freedom as an individual. for all her hurt and pain in the prologue she was able to get revenge in her tale.
I think the best explanation for the prologues (to me) is that Chaucer intended to introduce a sort of theme and ethical dilemma and/or situation. Going back to what we discussed in class, I think Chaucer knew that his prologues would introduce a topic and that the tales would dig a little deeper, but the questions--relating the story to real life--would still be left unanswered. That's why these pieces have lasted so long throughout historical-popular literature.
I think that the main relationship between the Wife of Bath's prologue and tale is that the prologue introduces the theme of power struggles, and the tale is told for her to reassure herself that she indeed led a pure and Christian life. For a woman that married so much and struggled with power issues herself, she wanted to justify her actions with the tale. The Wife of Bath uses the story with Jankin to support and give credit to her natural and 'necessary' sexual tendencies.
The prologues appear to be Chaucer's way of giving us background information of the characters that he may have left out in the initial descriptions. The prologues also seem to lead into the stories as well as give us an idea of what kind of story we will be reading next. The stories all seem to be connected to the characters themselves, for instance the Wife of Bath and her tale.
The Wife of Bath seems to be the type of woman who likes to get her way...especially when it comes to men and sex. In her tale, the answer to the knight's question is that women desire most is to be in charge of their husbands and lovers. Perhaps this is what the Wife of Bath secretly desires? Maybe it's just me, but it also appears that the Wife sees men as cruel and shallow...which would explain her treatment of them. But I could possibly be looking to far into it. The fact that she had so many husbands that she practically drove insane baffles me.
It seems like the prologues are just giving us a taste of what the characters are like and a brief preview of what the story will be like. If the character is noble then the story is most likely not to be raunchy or shocking. If story is by someone who seems like they arent pure or noble then most likely the story will be the same way.
The Wife of Bath's prologue tells about her life and her struggles with men. The tale then has the man trying to figure out what women truly desire. I think that both show different ways of women getting what they want from men but they both involve some type of deception.
I believe that the purpose of the prologues is to give us deeper insight as to the type of person each character is as well as to what the following tale will be about.
There is a strong relationship between the Wife of Bath's Prologue and her Tale. Chaucer spends the entire prologue (23 pages) depicting the Wife of Bath as defending her position as a woman who has been married five times. She gives logical, reasonable evidence as to why she should not be looked down upon for her many marriages (King Solomon, Jacob, and Abraham had multiple wives). She also gives logical reasonings as to why her sexual drive in general should not be looked down upon (why did God give us this ability if He did not mean for us to put it to use?). However, while she has good logic behind those arguments, she also proves to be an extremely petty, manipulative, money-hungry woman. She gives example after example of how she was not happy in her marriages until she was able to exhort power over her husbands. She insinuates that women do in fact want to have power in their relationships.
This theme, which the Wife of Bath holds so strongly for her personal life, blatantly ties in to her tale. The knight gets tricked by the old hag, but ends up getting everything that he wants when he finally relents and gives the woman the power to make the decision.
I think Chaucer's prologues have several purposes. First, they serve to unify the work by reminding us that these are not just random tales thrown together, but a chronological discussion and storytelling session among travelers. They also allow us to gain some insight into the characters and the reasons they choose the tales they do (for instance, the Reeve's Tale being told to spite the miller). As we discussed in class, the Wife of Bath uses her prologue to defend her credibility and put forth justification for her several marriages. I think her Tale, in which the knight learns that what women most want is to be in control of their man, is used to further justify her actions. She first is taking the blame off of herself by claiming that ALL women want to govern in love - she's just one of the few willing to admit it. And by allowing the knight to be rewarded with a beautiful, faithful, young wife in the end, she is saying that the way for a man to get what he wants is to submit to the woman. A fine argument, though I suspect some may have the crazy idea that this should go both ways....
Erin,
Nice job pointing out the Wife of Bath's hypocrisy! She candidly tells us that she married for greed, treated her husbands abusively, and manipulated them to get her way. It is really interesting that she spends so much time attempting to make her multiple marriages line up with Biblical doctrine, when her behavior within those marriages is so blatantly un-Christian. She mentions Paul's letters quite a few times, but she certainly doesn't attempt to personify his description of love in 1st Corinthians, now does she?
Erin,
i have to agree on your comments about the wife of bath. while she is giving great reasons why she shouldnt be looked down upon for having the high sex drive and for the multiple marriages, she uses horrible tactics to snare these men. It shows that she will do anything, including getting hit in the head with a book and going deaf, to have control over these men.
Lashawnda,
I like how you point out that the reader can guess what type of tale they are about to read based on the character of the storyteller. A good example of that was the knight, who is considered noble, and his tale, which was unsurprisingly about nobility and idealistic views of love...Nobody should've been surprised about the Wife of Bath's tale either. I like that you pointed out deception as a role-player in the Wife's treatment of men as well as the main character in her tale.
Lashawnda, it's interesting that you bring up the fact that the Wife of Bath's prologue gives us a taste of what is coming up. In my opinion, she is one of the more characterized pilgrims. Unlike some of the other professions, we actually get a pretty darn good idea of who she is and what she is all about.
As far as the deception goes, I think Chaucer throws in these curve balls very intuitively. He is able to ignite conversation about virtually every situation; thus is why we still find ourselves reading these after so many years.
martin
i agree she was using her tale and prologue to talk about a power struggle between men and women. she talked about her personal live in the prologue describing her power struggle with her five husband and how finally in the end she got a chance to lead and her tale is about a woman who has the power of life and death over her man.
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